In today’s interview, we had the pleasure of sitting down with two individuals who bring unique perspectives to the table when it comes to the world of electric boats: Daniel Holtsjo and Thaer Abumeidan.
In a world where sustainability is becoming increasingly essential, the marine industry is making waves with a revolutionary shift towards eco-friendly alternatives. Electric boats, once a niche concept, are now emerging as a beacon of hope for conscientious sailors and nature enthusiasts alike.
In today’s interview, we had the pleasure of sitting down with two individuals who bring unique perspectives to the table when it comes to the world of electric boats: Daniel Holtsjo and Thaer Abumeidan.
Throughout our conversation, we explored important aspects of buying an electric boat. This included considerations for purchasing a second-hand electric boat, understanding hybrid boats, the process of repowering any conventional boat with an electric system, the pricing dynamics of electric boats, and a valuable tip for boating enthusiasts who are embarking on the journey of exploring electric boats for the first time.
With Daniel's international cross-cultural experiences and Thaer's intimate connection with the sea, our discussion promises to be an interesting exploration into the world of electric boats.
So, let's dive in and uncover the insights that Daniel and Thaer have to share about the eco-friendly revolution making waves in the marine industry.
Dione: What has driven your interest in electric yachts?
Thaer: Well, after some boating experiences and dealing with engine problems, whether it is diesel or petrol, I got information that electric engines are less complicated and have fewer failures compared to the conventional engines we're using now.
Another thing is the quietness. For boaters, the serenity of cruising through the sea with quiet engines is a game-changer. It's almost like the sound of sailing—just the waves and the air around you, without the noise.
The third thing is cost effectiveness. If the use of solar power keeps advancing at its current pace, with the development of electric engines,I believe it's going to be the future for all boaters.
Daniel: For me it’s the quietness and the reliability. If you have an electric engine, you flip on the switch and off you go. Another thing for me is being autonomous. You’re not relying on having to go to a marina to refuel. As long as the sun is shining, you have free fuel driving your boat. Add a water maker to that and you’re pretty independent. You can fish and you’re completely autonomous. For me it’s being free from marinas and then having that quietness of being out in the water without the diesel fumes and a noisy engine.
Dione: What are the top three questions that you’ve got in your mind that you’re trying to get the answers to?
Thaer: Firstly, I'm thinking about whether now is the right time to embrace such a shift. It's a very new concept, and currently, there are no electric engines powerful enough to efficiently propel boats of 35 feet or more. You really have to think about the cruising speed because a speed of just 20 knots can turn any journey into a lengthy trip. This is one of the challenges of the movement for using only purely an electric engine.
The other thing is the maintenance. At present, there are not enough expert technicians all over the world because this is something very new.
Daniel: Speed is one of the major factors. If you want to be autonomous and run purely on solar, do you have to give up on speed? You might have one of the more efficient B1 yachts they have 6, 7, 8 knots maybe that they can sustain. They can go faster, but it would drain the battery faster.
On the other hand, I compare that with sailing. If you sail, often you’ll do 7 knots unless it’s really, really windy. I’m okay with that trade off and take it a bit slower. As soon as you push a vessel through water it’s a lot of resistance. You can get a really powerful electric engine that can push a boat 30 knots plus but it will only last for two hours, and then you run out of battery. Finding the balance between speed and time is crucial.
A significant part of this equation is the batteries and their development. If you order a boat today, what type of batteries should you choose, considering that there might be advancements in battery technology in the next 18 months that we're not aware of today?
As Thaer mentioned, there may be lower maintenance on electric engines, but there could be other problems, like charge controllers and more electronics that can potentially break. This means you need to be more of an electrician than a diesel mechanic to fix these issues and have spare parts with you. Unlike a diesel engine where you have oil filters and spare parts, electric engines involve a lot of electronic spare parts.
And another thing that’s really unknown is lightning. If you have a lightning strike on the boat, if you’re on a diesel boat that’s not a lot of problems, but if you’re on a solar-powered electric boat where everything is electrical, what’s your backup plan?
Dione: Are there any second-hand electric yachts available?
Thaer: I have seen some but it brings me back to Daniel's point about the batteries. In my own experience, I have to change the batteries every couple of years in my other boat. Now, considering the batteries used for electric engines, is it a good idea to have four or five-year old batteries at the moment? And as you already know, the maximum warranty of those batteries is like nine years from the best manufacturer. I’m not sure what changes in technology in five years for those engines and those batteries.
Dione: It appears that the technology is moving very fast, doesn’t it? What have you found, Daniel, in the second-hand area?
Daniel: Not full electric. There are versions that are being converted. I’ve seen sailing catamarans. They took out the diesel engines and put in electrical engines. It’s still very, very new. If you use solar yachts, the hull efficiency is different because you’re dealing with a lot less engine power, so the hull is going to be thinner to go through water a lot easier than regular powered catamarans that have an abundance of power in the back.
Yes, they save fuel but you’re taking it to a different level when you want to be efficient going through water with electrical engines. They are there but as far as I know there’s not really a second-hand market for really solar-powered yachts built from the beginning.
Dione: Can I get a hybrid boat? What is a hybrid boat compared to these new electric yachts that are being developed now? Is a hybrid boat a new boat or is it an old boat that’s got a few solar panels on it?
Thaer: Hybrid option is one of the things that I’m really looking for and there are several engine manufacturers who are doing this at the moment. With hybrids, you have the advantages of solar power and electric engines and at the same time, you still have the engines that we already know and we depend on in our yachts at the moment.
Dione: So a hybrid engine, is it a new engine that’s hybrid? When I’m thinking of hybrids, I’m thinking of a number of sailboats where the owners are putting solar panels on them. Is that hybrid or are you talking more about an engine that’s hybrid?
Thaer: No, it’s a conventional engine. I have seen it in a Volvo Penta. It's a hybrid engine that combines a diesel engine with an electric one, and you can use both.
While you are on diesel you can charge your batteries because the electric engine will work as a charger. And when you are on the electric power you consume the electricity from the batteries while your diesel engine is off.
I've observed this in some boats, and the interesting part is that you may not even need a separate generator on the boat because these diesel engines can function as generators when needed. In sunny locations, you might not need them as generators. Another company, Cummins, also offers a hybrid system.
Daniel: For me, hybrid is like Thaer said, there are versions today that actually have two engines but one of them is electric and one of them is diesel, so you can run on fuel or electric if you want.
The hybrid that appeals to me is to have a catamaran with two electric engines and then you have a built-in diesel generator on it. The diesel generator is going to be quieter than in regular powered boats. You have a diesel generator that can supply enough power to run the two electric engines. That would still be quieter and more fuel-efficient. Big tankers today have electric engines run by big gas generators.
So we have the solar cells and then when you really want to have a really good power output from your electric engines to push your boat faster through the water, you can then add the diesel generator. As long as you have fuel in the tank you can power your electric engines.
Dione: A few months back, a boating enthusiast asked me about converting a catamaran to electric power. He was really sure about it. Do you think it can be done?
Daniel: Yes, I believe it's possible, but there's something important to consider. You'll need a large solar array to power the boat. The current solar-powered catamarans use around 30 to 40 square meters of solar panels.
If you want to upgrade a catamaran, you'll have to add a big structure on top where you can install these solar panels. I'm not sure how it will affect the boat's design and reliability.
It's a challenge to market or build something that large on a boat, considering factors like wind resistance and other aspects. You'll need a substantial solar panel array, essentially covering the entire boat.
Thaer: I think one of the major issues is the design of the boat. The hull needs to be totally different and the drag over the water should be totally different from conventional motor engines. So, if you're thinking about converting boats to electric power right now, you're likely to face difficulties achieving the performance you expect before starting such a project.
Dione: Now about cost. If we’re going to buy a new catamaran, 40 to 50 feet versus an electric new catamaran 40 to 50 feet, what’s the difference in the price at the moment?
Thaer: From the prices that I have seen, usually electric-powered engines are around 30% more than conventional engines. This is an average and this is understandable because of the electronics that you have to add on that system. The engine itself is cheaper than conventional engines but those systems of wiring and having battery chargers with different options to charge offshore and solar and from a generator onboard, I guess that’s what makes the cost a bit high, but it’s around 30%.
Daniel: It’s somewhere on that cost, but the cost is very much dependent on the battery banks or what type of battery banks. You can opt for less expensive lead-acid batteries or go for the more powerful, BW lithium batteries.
Lead acid is a lot cheaper but then you can’t get the same amount of power that you can get out of lithium ion batteries. Lithium ion is still very, very expensive even though when we start comparing the capacity between lithium and lead acid they sort of evens out. Even though they are more expensive initially as a purchase, lifetime cost will probably be the same with lead acid batteries.
The battery is really what’s driving costs right now. Solar cells get cheaper and cheaper. But batteries get cheaper and they will only get better. I see that going down all the time. As the battery technology gets better and better costs will go down.
Dione: What are the three things that you are most concerned about that you want to highlight to other people that are thinking about it and then, and what excites you the most?
Thaer: Maintenance is one of my greatest fears. The other thing is the efficiency of the boat and performance of these boats in the water.
And the thing that I’m excited about is really going solar with that quietness that you will achieve with those engines is the most fascinating thing. In the long term, it’s going to be much more cost-effective to have electric-powered engines that will really depend on solar power for at least 50 to 60% of the energy consumption that you get on board your boat.
Daniel: I think the key is the cost over time. Even if these boats are more expensive initially, you won't have to visit the marina for refueling. Watching people cringe at the expense of filling up their huge diesel tanks is something I've observed. So, despite the higher upfront cost, I believe over time, it will be more cost-efficient and cheaper
The caveat is this is still a new technology. We don’t really know how reliable these things are. We know electric engines are reliable but how much can we rely on the technology in between the solar cells and the engines.
It’s a little bit scary but at the same time, you have to get on the train sometimes, right? The technology will still just keep evolving so you just need to decide when you think it’s mature enough to jump on and then you just have to stay on for the ride.
Dione: When do you think it’s going to be mature enough for you in a timeline?
Daniel: I’m looking into within the next couple of years getting in a solar-powered yacht. There are a couple of brands out there that have matured technology. They have boats in production they’re getting ready to roll out. So have someone else do the first sea trials and once they are successful, then I’ll jump on.
Dione: What’s the number one tip that you can share with other people that are just starting on this journey looking at the electric boats?
Thaer: I need advice. I still need advice in that field, but if I’m going to advise anyone, for new boaters, I have a single piece of advice. Go with something small and something not really expensive as a first time boater because once you become a boat owner the next thing that you will think about is to have a bigger boat. So start small and go from there. With electric engines, I'm in the learning phase myself, so I can't provide specific advice in that area at the moment.
Daniel: Start scouring the internet. There’s a lot of information out there and things are happening month by month and new things pop up. Search YouTube. Search Google for anything electrical yachting, electrical boating.
You’ll find resources out there and there are now dedicated websites that are just trying to highlight the different developments that are happening, everything from electric output engines to really solar-powered electric big yachts. There’s also web resources out there that’s also helping you scour more information on looking at different engines, different battery technologies, types of charging technologies.
And then, try and learn as much as you can and then make an informed decision. Keep in mind that technologies keep evolving all the time so we all just keep learning as the technology evolves.
As we're witnessing the changes in the marine industry, the conversation with Daniel Holtsjo and Thaer Abumeidan has shed light on the exciting future of electric boats. Their insights took us on a journey exploring the quiet efficiency, reliability, and eco-friendliness these vessels bring to the open seas.
Thaer's love for the simplicity and calm offered by electric engines, along with Daniel's desire for autonomy and freedom from traditional fueling, paints a vivid picture of a future where the hum of electric motors blends with the natural sounds of the ocean.
Well, the electric boat movement is not just a passing fad but a significant shift in the tides of maritime technology. While the future holds uncertainties, the allure of cruising on solar-powered seas calls out to adventurers and environmentally conscious sailors.
For those thinking about this journey into the world of electric boats, Thaer and Daniel's parting advice echoes: Start small, absorb the wealth of information available online, and make informed decisions as the technology evolves. The waves of change are upon us, and the horizon of electric boating promises a quieter, cleaner, and more sustainable future on the water.
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If you want to know more about electric boats, read more blogs here.
Note: This interview is being run for the Boat Buyer Expo (www.boatbuyerexpo.com). You can also watch the interview on YouTube HERE.
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